Look mom, Bailey said this morning. There see, those ladies are giving away free coffee N donuts. You should go there. I wonder if they have sprinkle donuts?
(As an aside, I love how literal six year olds read. The N, was just an N in her mind.)
Nah love, that’s a church, I won’t be going there, I said to her. I waited for the next question, but then she saw a dead raccoon and I got to hear a five minute story about the dead raccoon. Thank god for six year olds with short attention spans.
I’d of been honest with her if she asked. I am just not completely sure I could have made my point in the five minutes it took us to drive the rest of the way to school. I’m not sure I could have even touched the subject matter in five minutes. YAY dead raccoons. Ahem.
I don’t have an issue with free coffee and donuts. I don’t even have a problem with churches. Not in general. I do take issue with a church having women stand outside for a couple hours each morning, waving their hands around, holding signs for free coffee and donuts.
Those coffee and donuts aren’t free. They come with a price. I know what that church is. It’s false advertising, that sign outside. Their regular sign is generally filled with some weird saying that takes me days to figure out each week. Once I finally figure out it’s a sneaky way to call everyone who doesn’t attend evil, I tend to get angry. That church is more a fire and brimstone, you are evil if you don’t believe what we believe, type church. They beileve a woman’s only place is cooking, cleaning and raising children. They have a small school attached to the church, because they believe pubic school is evil. Mark my words. You will never see a man outside that church holding a sign.
I promise you, those donuts come with a price. One I’m not willing to pay.
How do you explain that to a six year old though? How do you explain to an inquisitive six year old, that some people believe their way is the only way? How do I explain religion to her, when I don’t understand it myself?
Every fight, every war, every major argument it seems, somehow goes back to religion. After how ever many thousand years, we still haven’t figure out as a species, to let people believe in the god of their choosing. You’d think we’d of gotten it by now, but we just haven’t. All those articles, blog posts, tweets about the mosque being built near the World Trade Center, all go back to the simple fact that we can’t just allow each other the right to choose. You choose your god, I’ll choose mine…most likely they are all some form of the same. Who knows? Do you know? I surely don’t.
I also know I don’t have the answers for my children. I am the child of a very lapsed baptist and an atheist Jew. I was not raised in religion. Any religion. Were their pieces of the traditions from both in my childhood? Yes. Mostly it was just holiday traditions though.
I don’t know what I believe. Honestly, I don’t. I love that many of you do. I just don’t. I almost wish I could be an atheist. It seems too final for me though. Too easy. Maybe too hard. Like I said, I have no clue what I believe. Makes it hard as a parent to explain things to your kids.
I do know though, that church isn’t giving out free donuts.
23 Responses to No free donuts
Grab My Button!
I’m a joiner
I love all of your posts. Truly.
But then there are ones that just flat blow me away with the quality of writing. This is one of those.
I wish, just even for one day we could all stop looking at each other’s differences and celebrate what we have in common.
I wish, just for one day, we could all afford each other simple respect.
I walk the same path, or I will, in regards to religion. The preschool we are sending Ava to is a private, church based one. I worry about having conversations like that one. I worry if my opinion will be strong enough for her to hold on to with regard to respecting everyone else’s choices.
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:32 am
@avasmommy, Thank you friend. Truly. All day yesterday, that first part of this comment stuck with me. Made me smile. Am touched. Really. Love you.
I think on a preschool level you are probably fine. Ask Liz…I know Thomas and Caroline’s preschool is a religious one. Really, it’s just preschool. I think that parents have way more of a sway at least while kids are little.
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“I really like the arc of this post,” I thought to myself. And then I cried because once the school year starts I completely lose the ability to read for pleasure. But really, I do like the arc of this post.
You know my feelings on this topic. With a big amen.
And are any doughnuts every *really* free?
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:35 am
@Allyson, LOL. You crack me up. Love you tons. And no…no donuts are ever free.
It sounds like you have some sort of history with that particular church? I only say that because seeing that, for me, would be kinda cool. Mostly because my family is looking for a new church to join and it would be a great way for me to check it out with no strings attached.
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:37 am
@Headless Mom, I only know what I hear from people around here. I’ve not had a run-in with any of them yet, although some of my neighbors have.
to me, faith and religion are two very different things. i have plenty of faith, in many things and it is a very personal subject. i don’t agree with organized religions. how i choose to express my faith is a very seperate matter. i don’t need a religious lifestyle to do so, and i sure don’t need people telling me that i am doing it wrong.
i agree, no donuts are ever “free”.
great post!
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:39 am
@Sara, I think that makes complete sense. My mom says that…that she has faith in things, but doesn’t believe in organized religion.
Man- I’m right there with you on this one. I don’t know either. It would be so much easier for my kids if I did. Then they could have something to say back to all those kids at school that tell them they are going to hell for not attending church. I feel bad that I can’t give them answers that are simple and straight forward.
Sometimes I think it would be easier to pretend to believe in something solid just so they can have an answer too. I’m pretty sure that is a Go Straight to Hell card though.
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:41 am
@followingtheroad, I love that it’s not, because they are bad people or because they’ve done something wrong. The act of not going to church means you are going to hell. Awesome. **Headdesk**
My kids have been told the same thing.
I’ve considered it too, pretend to believe…but it just doesn’t feel right.
My fave line: “You choose your god, I’ll choose mine…most likely they are all some form of the same.”
Just a few days ago I posted about how I am a Christian, but I hate hate hate how so many Christians screw things up for the rest of us. I have nothing in common with those women and their doughnuts other than the fact that we both believe in God. Believe what you wanna believe…and I’ll love ya no matter what.
(I know it sounds a bit Utopian, but why can’t we just all get along?)
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:45 am
@Bridget, I saw that post and I liked it…just as a non-religious person, I was afraid I’d offend someone. Ha.
The thing is? I am a good person. I live a good, honest life. I take care of myself, my children, my dog, my home. I pay my taxes, I don’t cheat or steal. How is that not good enough? Where does the line get drawn? The line that says, if you don’t do this… i.e. going to church.. if you don’t believe this…then suddenly, you are going to hell? That is what pushes me farther and farther away from religion is that attitude, ya know?
Funny thing… before reading any comments I read your post in my outlook reader but I kept going back in my mind as I read the comments to the same sentence as Bridget “You choose your god, I’ll choose mine… most likely they are all some form of the same.” I have pondered this same thought multiple times.
I however must also say like Bridget I too am a Christian however it sounds like I have nothing else in common with them other then we both say we are Christians. I don’t agree that you have to be a stay a home mom. I think men and women both can cook, clean, and raise children! Also, I am all for sending your children to the public school!
Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@Amber,
Thank you Amber. To be fair, this is a very religious rights type of church. But it just made me think. I’d been pondering all of this with all the Mosque talk lately too. I just didn’t want to go there. Am wuss. 
I have been affiliated with many different Religions and Churches. I have been educated in the ones I have not participated with.
I lived under the shroud of Christianity in a ‘Free coffee and donuts’ kind of church. I was taught to hate my aunt, my most very favorite person in the world b/c she is gay. I was made to sit out in the hall and pray for my father’s soul as a first grader, so he wouldn’t be stuck in purgatory. I have watched people lead others in the word of God and pass judgement on others for how well they were maintaining their relationships with God. I have seen those same people cheat on their spouses with each other, while kicking a teenager out of the church for getting pregnant.
My dad was a pillar of the church community, a Decon at the time when he took his life and my brothers…so my faith/religion is the most jaded of anyone I think. Heh.
So yeah, there is a heavy price I must say. But I will educate Mason and let him make his own choice. I will NEVER force it on my children like it was forced on me. That much I do know.
I am just floating out here, not sure where I want to land as far as religion goes. I don’t mind anyone’s religion, however I DO mind when you try to drag me into it. I wish people could just enjoy their religion, and let me enjoy my lack there of.
I like the basics. Be good, be good to others, and do the best you can.
Not sure what religion that is, but you are more likely to see me praying to a cupcake than you are to any god.
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 10:04 am
@Lu, I’m telling you babe, that chocolate bunny god is the REAL DEAL!!!!
Love you times a million.
I wish I could undo some of this for you. I would in a heartbeat. xoxo
We raise our kids agnostic. If you don’t know how you feel about religion it’s a good avenue to take. It just leaves the doors open for anything, be it an organized faith, or something more ‘spiritual.’
You should explain it to your kids just the way you did in this post. The earlier you start having these kids of discussions the better in the long run.
Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:48 am
@LL, We’ve had these talks. They been told they are going to hell by kids in the neighborhood, because we don’t attend church. You know the be a good person thing is gone I guess…you are going to hell if you don’t attend church each week. Sigh.
My thing is that I believe I have faith…just not religion. If that makes sense?
Ahh yes. Religion.
You put it so well.
I’ve battled with what I believe and have yet to come up with a solid answer for myself let alone anyone else, and don’t plan to really. We no longer live in a time where you just do or believe what your parents or your community believe. We have expanded to a world larger than the small towns where everyone gathered under one roof with the same/similar beliefs. Where people didn’t question. God is. Who/whatever that is to them.
A topic that came up during a random car ride many years ago:
Him: Our kids will be baptized (as babies)
Her: Why not let them decide if they want to be baptized and by what specific church when they are old enough to make that decision?
Him: Because my family baptizes kids as babies and it’s our tradition.
Her: Baptizm is a choice not a tradition. Why would you baptize your kids into a religion you don’t even fully follow?
Him: Better safe than sorry!
Her: **eye roll**
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Issa Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 9:26 am
@Cherry, The other thing, is that in a big city, you can get away with no really having an answer….although, I’ve heard about some things said to my kids that I’m not happy with.
That is an interesting argument, the better safe than sorry one. Am not sure I agree with it. But that is just me. Ha.
I’m a rebel. But really, that just defeats the purpose of doing it, in my head.
Issa recently posted..I like cupcakes
Religion does funny things to people. About 8 months ago my daughter came home from school and told me that she wasn’t American because she doesn’t celebrate Christmas (we’re Jewish). WTF?
After living in Israel for 3 years, I can honestly say I’m less religious than I ever was … because I realized that religion isn’t necessarily taught, it’s felt. And nobody had to force me to feel anything there … I did it on my own…
As I get older, I appreciate everyone else’s beliefs far more ever. Because, regardless of where anyone else prays or what everyone else believes, it’s nice to have something to hold onto … and even nicer for everyone to define what their something is.
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I get you. I wrote a post on my blog about the intolerance of one church in our area a couple of days a go. Synchronicity with you. I am a former catholic. I know what I do believe is in Karma. That I don’t find god in church. I find more spirituality in practicing yoga then I did in 8 years of catholic school
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Enjoyed your post!
Thank goodness for racoons… as it sounds like you weren’t quite prepared to have the other conversation just yet.
But as another reader said, have the dialogue as you did here. That you’re not sure, you don’t have the answers to what you perhaps do believe but are pretty sure what you don’t believe. And that is donuts are not free and the reasons why. Each of us should have the right to our own choices. There is not only one way. There is room for all.
I don’t think kids need us to have all the answers all of the time or they’ll grow up thinking they need to do the same. It’s okay to question, to be unsure.
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